Volker Türk: "The wars in Ukraine and Gaza consume most of the world’s political energy"

Körber-Stiftung: Your first trip as UN high commissioner for human rights was to Sudan in 2022. Since April 2023, the country has been at war. Despite your repeated warnings, the stalemate between the Sudanese army and the Rapid Support Forces (RSF) militia continues. What needs to happen now?

Volker-Türk: We need a negotiated political solution. But the two generals — Abdel Fattah al-Burhan of the Sudanese army and Mohammed Hamdan Daglo “Hemeti” of the RSF — are still pursuing a military victory. That’s why states with influence over them must apply pressure and push them into talks. Only then can UN Special Envoy Ramtane Lamamra play a real role.

What influence does Germany have?
No direct influence. But Germany has strong ties with countries such as the United Arab Emirates and Egypt, both of which are influential in Sudan. These connections need to be used. More broadly, Sudan needs far more visibility. We’re talking about eight to nine million displaced people, widespread sexual violence, famine, heavy bombardment with huge impact on the civilian population.

Why is it so hard to draw international attention to Sudan?
The wars in Ukraine and Gaza consume most of the world’s political energy. That leaves little capacity for Sudan. My recent report on the humanitarian crisis in Al-Fasher received wide coverage in Arab media but barely any in the German press. That’s a huge problem because the situation is dire.

The situation in the Gaza strip is also dire. Have your appeals to increase pressure on Israel had any impact?
I would have hoped our early warnings were taken more seriously. Already in 2023, we warned of an escalation in the Palestinian territories. Unresolved conflicts erupt sooner or later — as they did on 7 October. That horrific terrorist attack, which must be fully condemned, triggered another terrible spiral of violence, also to be fully condemned. My role is to show how human rights can form part of a solution, but diplomacy has to deliver the political answers.

Should Germany recognize Palestine as a state?
That’s a decision each country must make for itself. What matters is that we support a two-state solution. Recognition is ultimately a question of how much pressure a state wants to exert on Israel.

Do you maintain contact with the Israeli government?
No. Israel cut ties with my office in 2020, which I regret deeply. I tried to re-establish dialogue and met Prime Minister Yair Lapid in September 2022, just before I took office. He was open to a new kind of exchange. But when Benjamin Netanyahu returned to power, those efforts ended.

You’ve said we must prepare for a weakening of multilateralism. Is that inevitable?
Multilateralism is in its deepest crisis in decades. Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, the sense in the Global South of being abandoned during COVID-19, the Gaza war and accusations of double standards have all contributed. But in recent weeks I’ve also seen renewed support: many states in Latin America, Asia and Africa now recognize that a breakdown of the international system would pose serious risks for them.

Speaking of double standards: was it a mistake for Chancellor Friedrich Merz to say Germany would find “ways and means” to prevent a possible arrest of Netanyahu?
Let me put it this way: if you sign up to international obligations, you have to honour them.

Are there countries that don’t apply double standards?
Ireland, Spain and Norway, for example, have been consistent on Ukraine and Gaza. With others, it’s more complicated. The real problem is when governments decry double standards but refuse to acknowledge their own blind spots.

What does Washington’s waning interest in international institutions mean for your work?
It hurts financially and politically. This year, we’re losing about a quarter of our already limited budget. That means our fact-finding missions, which are essential to documenting abuses and delivering justice, can only be done with half the resources. Victims of human rights violations will be left without redress. And politically the change is obvious: have you noticed how the US State Department’s latest human rights report looks different than in the past?

Yes, the United States seems to be reshaping the concept of human rights through an “America First” lens.
Exactly. Russia and China have done this for a while, but now the United States does so as well. I fear it misleads the public. Human rights need to be explained in a way that makes people understand they serve their own interests.

How did you first become engaged with human rights?
I was born 20 years after the Second World War. Human rights issues were deeply formative for me. I believe they need to be taught in schools more seriously. Human rights set limits on arbitrary power and they inspire action in the search for a better world. If we don’t know what rights we have, then we have a problem.

Thank you for your time, Comissoner Türk.

01.09.2025

The interview was conducted by Julia Ganter and Jonathan Lehrer

In cooperation with Table.Media, The Berlin Pulse Express Edition combines the foreign policy attitudes of Germans with expectations of Germany from abroad.